I posted a two-part article on this blog in November about preachers, priests, ministers, and pastors and how I relate or don't relate to churches and what I look for and hope for in religion and faith. I also mixed into those articles much about how some people in my circles have compelling personal testimonies. You can read those posts here and here.
Something of what I was talking about last month shows up in a post by Matt Tebbe that is making the rounds. Mr. Tebbe writes:
A convo I've had dozens of times:
White conservative Christian: "You're a liberal why do you hate Christians and the church so much."
Me: "I am a Christian; I've been in vocational church ministry for a quarter century."
WCC: "Well you sure do pick and choose how you interpret the Bible and you're really hard on Christians your exegesis is awful."
Me: "We all pick and choose. I try to choose what hasn't been picked very often in my experience."
WCC: "Well everything you talk about sounds marxist and you've abandoned the gospel for social justice."
Me: "Are you referring to the fact that I talk about women, racism, and money a lot?"
WCC: "The woke agenda yes."
Me: "'Woke' is an AAVE term (African American Vernacular English) used by Black people in a positive manner that was then appropriated by white people and turned into an insult, to cast aspersions on those seeking to redress the destructiveness of white supremacy. Reconsider using it as a slur for the sake of your neighbor."
WCC: "I see you've been brainwashed."
Me: "I'm attempting to conserve some Scripture teaching on wealth, property, debt, the human dignity and equality of all people, and the destructive impact of systemic partiality. Also: I think there's places to progress past an ancient ethic that held to the ontological inferiority of women, that slavery was a given, that women were basically property of their husbands/fathers, etc."
WCC: "You think that Scripture errs?"
Me: "Be curious about why you think dealing with systemic injustice, financial greed and inequality, racism, and misogyny are liberal issues. Why aren't they considered conservative issues?"
WCC: "I knew it you deny the authority of Scripture. And you're being divisive."
Me: "The truth will do that, divide and such. You seem to have no qualms about division when you accuse me of wrongdoing."
WCC: "I'll be praying for you."
Me: "May your justice increase so that your prayer would availeth much."
**it just never goes anywhere, beloved. But this Advent I again choose hope.**
That is a pretty limited conversation or encounter, or perhaps it's just reaching towards some name-calling. By the standards of current-day social media its calm, and perhaps it documents that most people will not say in one-on-one encounters what they will say on social media.
I steer away from these conversations and look for commonality or to hold the line and perhaps influence someone in the future. "Commonality" for me is founded on common experiences, a love for what is beautiful, sympathy. It is not founded on agreeing to disagree. I look for some understanding of solidarity at a time when the existence of society and the solidarity that is needed as society's underpinnings is so at risk. Many working-class conservatives (more about this below) where I come from understand that solidarity and support or embody it, something that I think often transcends politics and religion. It's about decency and humanity and my side does not have the corner on either anymore. Many get that, perhaps many more don't. For that matter, lots of liberal and progressive people who I know don't get it either.
When such conversations do occur, face-to-face or on social media, they can escalate rather quickly and can end on a bad note. I try to save something for the future with most people even when it means my holding something back. My bottom lines, I hope, are racism/anti-racism, sexism, and solidarity. Loving the people more than hating the oppressors.
Truth be told, this is less about right vs. left or progressive vs. reactionary. Over the past few weeks I've had some bitter encounters with others on the left, people who I considered comrades and a couple who I considered influences in my life. The depth of that bitterness has made my head spin. It feels as if we are drowning in arguments, whether its in our political or religious or social and family circles. There are too many paths open to nihilism. I find myself feeling as if I have to defend the concepts of society and social order and kindness and solidarity. Is it really raining despair and hatred? Is there any shelter in this storm?
Danny Bowling recently published the following on the Appalachian Americans Facebook page and I believe that it has some relevancy here because religion and the church have often served as shelters in a tough world.
Church used to be everyone come to the choir.
Now it’s a praise team.
People used to feel free to testify of the good things of God.
Now that's not in our plans.
People used to be faithful to church every service, Now they only come on Sunday morning.....
People would pack the Altar for prayer and cry out to God, Now the Altar is empty....
Preacher’s used to read, study and pray for the message.
Many today read the internet and study how to deliver someone else’s message.
Church music was part of the worship experience.
Now it’s so loud and has become the focal point.
Church used to pray for God to send them a pastor.
Now it’s a beauty contest. We know him and he would fit in nicely. Caring less if they even meet the biblical qualifications.
Church used to have the Holy Ghost leading the services.
Now we have emotions leading the church.
Let’s seek out the old paths and walk in them AGAIN !!!
CHURCH we need to be CHRIST centered and
following the leadership of the HOLY GHOST.
This reads as a poem to me, sad or angry or despairing or demanding. Many of the people who have read the post found a subtext in Mr. Bowling's words that (I think) validated their points of view, and this has been overwhelmingly conservative. For whatever its worth, I also feel what Mr. Bowling is saying if we just take his words at face value and without the heavy weight of conservative context. And because I feel this with some intensity I stay as connected as I can to Greenleaf Christian Church in Goldsboro, North Carolina, the Poor Peoples Campaign, and a few other churches and religious communities that I consider to be Spirt-filled.
We have two sets of problems, two arguments being made that miss one another. Mr. Tebbe is taking on white conservative Christians and not getting very far. Mr. Bowling has a vision of what church could be and memories of what he has seen church be. There are fears and anger on all sides here and these are only going to deepen unless the contradictions between them are resolved. I hope that there will be a willingness to engage in ways that move us forward.
Mr. Tebbe's white conservative Christians have no identity beyond the labels he gives them. We don't know if they are female or male, what their economic situations are, what generations they come from, if their politics derive from their religion or if something else is going on, what sections of the country they come from. Mr. Bowling is somewhat sentimental about the forms that religion often took in Appalachia and about a time and place that has been ground down by deindustrialization, oppression and corruption, and, most recently, deliberate efforts to create widespread substance abuse. Mr. Tebbe enters his discussion able to debate about racism and anti-racism. Mr. Bowling and most of his supporters seem unable or unwilling to do so. Mr. Tebbe seems to assume a political equality between believers, and he and the people he is arguing with all seem to accept a "politicized" religion, for lack of a better word, though they take opposing political sides. Mr. Bowling seems to believe in an equality of all believers before God that is based on our fallen natures, God's grace, and the work of the Holy Spirit. This is worked out for him, I believe, in a Christian community that is Spirit-led but that rests on anointed leaders and people who feel a personal connection to Jesus Christ.
Mr. Tebbe may be sanding with the wrong kind of planer when he focuses on whites. White people often come to these arguments feeling that we have something to protect, and white middle-class conservatives have a Republican Party and its power behind them for validation and refuge and as their means of interpreting and spinning their experiences in ways that reinforce their power and excuse their faults. There are the legacies of slavery, racism, and the defeat of Reconstruction, and the denials of civil and human rights to contend with here, and few churches have been innocent bystanders or in opposition when it comes to the United States' racialized oppression. Saying this does not imply hatred of the U.S.
But it is my observation that as we move from the arguments with the middle-class white Christian conservative to talking with white working-class Christians and then with white working-class Christians who are union members that something helpful begins to surface. These white workers who have the experiences of unionization and the hope that it offers feel a greater commonality or shared interest with people of color, there are common reference points and more to talk about. This is especially true where people have the experience s of working in groups in which workers depend on one another, like mine workers or nurses. The conversation is still not one between people with equal standing before the law or with the same de facto political rights, but it begins to bend in that direction. Motivations shift. The arc of justice bends because we have so many people who know how to weld in the working-class. Sections of the Black Church have remained a part of working-class struggles. The president of the Coalition of Black Trade Unionists is a minister. There are few white churches, and no white leaders who I know of, who can meet the Black Church and faith-inspired Black working-class leaders where they stand. Until that changes we will all suffer greatly---and separately. The salvation of the working-class majority in the U.S. is in Black and Brown hands now.
Truth be told, this is less about right vs. left or progressive vs. reactionary. Over the past few weeks I've had some bitter encounters with others on the left, people who I considered comrades and a couple who I considered influences in my life. The depth of that bitterness has made my head spin. It feels as if we are drowning in arguments, whether its in our political or religious or social and family circles. There are too many paths open to nihilism. I find myself feeling as if I have to defend the concepts of society and social order and kindness and solidarity. Is it really raining despair and hatred? Is there any shelter in this storm?
Danny Bowling recently published the following on the Appalachian Americans Facebook page and I believe that it has some relevancy here because religion and the church have often served as shelters in a tough world.
Church used to be everyone come to the choir.
Now it’s a praise team.
People used to feel free to testify of the good things of God.
Now that's not in our plans.
People used to be faithful to church every service, Now they only come on Sunday morning.....
People would pack the Altar for prayer and cry out to God, Now the Altar is empty....
Preacher’s used to read, study and pray for the message.
Many today read the internet and study how to deliver someone else’s message.
Church music was part of the worship experience.
Now it’s so loud and has become the focal point.
Church used to pray for God to send them a pastor.
Now it’s a beauty contest. We know him and he would fit in nicely. Caring less if they even meet the biblical qualifications.
Church used to have the Holy Ghost leading the services.
Now we have emotions leading the church.
Let’s seek out the old paths and walk in them AGAIN !!!
CHURCH we need to be CHRIST centered and
following the leadership of the HOLY GHOST.
This reads as a poem to me, sad or angry or despairing or demanding. Many of the people who have read the post found a subtext in Mr. Bowling's words that (I think) validated their points of view, and this has been overwhelmingly conservative. For whatever its worth, I also feel what Mr. Bowling is saying if we just take his words at face value and without the heavy weight of conservative context. And because I feel this with some intensity I stay as connected as I can to Greenleaf Christian Church in Goldsboro, North Carolina, the Poor Peoples Campaign, and a few other churches and religious communities that I consider to be Spirt-filled.
We have two sets of problems, two arguments being made that miss one another. Mr. Tebbe is taking on white conservative Christians and not getting very far. Mr. Bowling has a vision of what church could be and memories of what he has seen church be. There are fears and anger on all sides here and these are only going to deepen unless the contradictions between them are resolved. I hope that there will be a willingness to engage in ways that move us forward.
Mr. Tebbe's white conservative Christians have no identity beyond the labels he gives them. We don't know if they are female or male, what their economic situations are, what generations they come from, if their politics derive from their religion or if something else is going on, what sections of the country they come from. Mr. Bowling is somewhat sentimental about the forms that religion often took in Appalachia and about a time and place that has been ground down by deindustrialization, oppression and corruption, and, most recently, deliberate efforts to create widespread substance abuse. Mr. Tebbe enters his discussion able to debate about racism and anti-racism. Mr. Bowling and most of his supporters seem unable or unwilling to do so. Mr. Tebbe seems to assume a political equality between believers, and he and the people he is arguing with all seem to accept a "politicized" religion, for lack of a better word, though they take opposing political sides. Mr. Bowling seems to believe in an equality of all believers before God that is based on our fallen natures, God's grace, and the work of the Holy Spirit. This is worked out for him, I believe, in a Christian community that is Spirit-led but that rests on anointed leaders and people who feel a personal connection to Jesus Christ.
Mr. Tebbe may be sanding with the wrong kind of planer when he focuses on whites. White people often come to these arguments feeling that we have something to protect, and white middle-class conservatives have a Republican Party and its power behind them for validation and refuge and as their means of interpreting and spinning their experiences in ways that reinforce their power and excuse their faults. There are the legacies of slavery, racism, and the defeat of Reconstruction, and the denials of civil and human rights to contend with here, and few churches have been innocent bystanders or in opposition when it comes to the United States' racialized oppression. Saying this does not imply hatred of the U.S.
But it is my observation that as we move from the arguments with the middle-class white Christian conservative to talking with white working-class Christians and then with white working-class Christians who are union members that something helpful begins to surface. These white workers who have the experiences of unionization and the hope that it offers feel a greater commonality or shared interest with people of color, there are common reference points and more to talk about. This is especially true where people have the experience s of working in groups in which workers depend on one another, like mine workers or nurses. The conversation is still not one between people with equal standing before the law or with the same de facto political rights, but it begins to bend in that direction. Motivations shift. The arc of justice bends because we have so many people who know how to weld in the working-class. Sections of the Black Church have remained a part of working-class struggles. The president of the Coalition of Black Trade Unionists is a minister. There are few white churches, and no white leaders who I know of, who can meet the Black Church and faith-inspired Black working-class leaders where they stand. Until that changes we will all suffer greatly---and separately. The salvation of the working-class majority in the U.S. is in Black and Brown hands now.
Working-class conservatism and working-class liberalism or radicalism have their own dynamics apart from what Mr. Tebbe is up against. This makes it possible for working-class people to shoehorn political and theological radicalism in the old institutions and social structures. Our challenge is not to explain theology or to talk about white privilege when people of color and working-class whites encounter one another, but to find the means of identifying long-term self-interests and common interests and take those to church and into politics. Leadership is with and from Christ and the Holy Spirit, but we will have our Moseses and our prophets. Intercommunal survival, building leadership and capacity, and finding the right structures are our biggest immediate and so far unresolved problems. Perhaps the structures we're looking for are hiding in plain sight.
The church that Mr. Bowling is hoping for could be the church that a multiracial and self-aware working-class lands in with some adjustments made. A Christ-centered and Holy Ghost-led church filled with people of color and working-class whites who have made the connections between their personal relationships with Jesus Christ and communal salvation and who have experienced victories in their communities that bring everyone up will be a deeply politicized church, so deeply politicized that the very definitions of "politics" and "religion" will change. We're all going to be surprised when the Holy Spirit touches us, but I have this inescapable feeling that when the Holy Spirit touches white churches they're going to be taken to task for segregation and all that has kept them white that was in their control to fix. The falls under the heading of "some adjustments," I guess.
Mr. Bowling is opening one door, Mr. Tebbe another. The differences that they point to are real. And in a country that is as close to civil war as ours is, these differences can be magnified and taken to dangerous ends. The solution is not with dialogue and a search for some kind of center or middle point, but with a radical embrace of a liberating and Christ- and Bible-based theology and church. Take Mr. Tebbe's hope and Mr. Bowling's best observations and build on them. If that project succeeds, I think that the white Christian conservatives who Mr. Tebbe is arguing with can be converted.
The church that Mr. Bowling is hoping for could be the church that a multiracial and self-aware working-class lands in with some adjustments made. A Christ-centered and Holy Ghost-led church filled with people of color and working-class whites who have made the connections between their personal relationships with Jesus Christ and communal salvation and who have experienced victories in their communities that bring everyone up will be a deeply politicized church, so deeply politicized that the very definitions of "politics" and "religion" will change. We're all going to be surprised when the Holy Spirit touches us, but I have this inescapable feeling that when the Holy Spirit touches white churches they're going to be taken to task for segregation and all that has kept them white that was in their control to fix. The falls under the heading of "some adjustments," I guess.
Mr. Bowling is opening one door, Mr. Tebbe another. The differences that they point to are real. And in a country that is as close to civil war as ours is, these differences can be magnified and taken to dangerous ends. The solution is not with dialogue and a search for some kind of center or middle point, but with a radical embrace of a liberating and Christ- and Bible-based theology and church. Take Mr. Tebbe's hope and Mr. Bowling's best observations and build on them. If that project succeeds, I think that the white Christian conservatives who Mr. Tebbe is arguing with can be converted.
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